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Seifer - 1 more chance

neo_rufus in new_shinra87

Double Debate! Seifer's Flashback and Squall/Seifer V.S. Cloud

Ok so I have two debate topics I would love to discuss with all of you today. These are just a few out of the many that I have in mind. Ok so with that said, let's get to it. First one is about Final Fantasy 8. Do you any of you remember the part in the game when Squall and company visited Matron's orphanage? Was it disc two? Anyway, while in the basketball court they experience a flashback which leads them to remember who Matron is and that she is indeed the Sorceress. Ok so here is where things get a little tricky.

The next time they run into Seifer (who was also in the flashback) he talks to the entire group as if he experienced that very same flashback, possibly at the same time as the others. I say this because in disc 2 he refers to the Sorceress as Matron, obviously indicating he knows who she really is. I was able to find the quotes too. "Did you guys come to fight Matron? After all she's done for us?" What I find interesting is that in disc one he doesn't refer to the Sorceress as Matron. So here is my first question. In your opinion, did Seifer know who Edea was by the end of first disc? Or did he find out in disc 2 by experiencing the same flashback as the others, or by some other method?

My second question is pretty direct. If Seifer and Squall teamed up to battle Final Fantasy 7's Cloud, who do you think would win? This question is totally based on one's imagination. lol I'm just curious to see the feedback. But my personal opinion, I'd say Seifer and Squall would win. I'll admit that Cloud's 3 vs 1 skills was very impressive. But I don't recall seeing any limit breaks from Kadaj, and his gang. Me personally, Seifer and Squall might overwhelm Cloud with pure limit breaks. Although, the teamwork between Squall and Seifer could be complicated because I can see Seifer trying to do it all by himself and quite possibly endanger his partner. Also, one can even argue that Squall might spend most of the match trying to defend/protect Seifer afer making reckless/arrogant decisions. Neverhteless, I'd still consider the two teens the victors in this melee match up.

So those are my two debate topics. I hope you like them and I look forward to your point of views. XD

Comments


The second part of this question is easy for me to answer...I think a Squall/Seifer team would win against Cloud hands down...I mean, I love Cloud and being able to take on Jenova clones is no small feat but...I dunno, the boys of FFVIII to me would win easily. I personally think that they would win against Cloud in solo matches, as well, to be honest. Especially since Squall and Seifer are trained using their own personal strength and intelligence--while the GFs help, Cloud is genetically altered to be stronger so I think that makes the Garden boys inherently better in battle. And I can definitely see that they might get a little competitive with each other (and definitely see Squall acting as the defense of that operation!), but because of the their Garden training I think in battle they would understand to team up against a common enemy. I think a really interesting battle would be Cloud and Squall against Seifer...While true Squall has technically defeated Seifer, if there was no Sorceress involved draining Seifer's morale? Seifer did win in the battle at the beginning of the game, after all...

As for the flashbacks...I suppose I had not given too much though to the exact moment Seifer remembered. We know he had to have forgotten some things because he used GFs, but...Quistis at one point makes a comment about thinking her feelings for Squall were just a manifestation of her need to take Ellone's place, and I think a lot of Seifer's attitude towards the group is kind of like that. He might not remember them, but seeing them probably brings up some memories of their interactions as children so he just keeps going with that. I do not think he knew who Matron was at first, but yeah, he definitely remembered at some point. I wonder what it was that sparked his memory? The others had their flashback because Irvine told them about the orphanage so it triggered their memories...I wonder if someone told Seifer something about it or if being so connected to Edea again brought things back?

I also have to wonder if Ellone was communicating with Seifer at all during all of this time. Obviously she was probably not sending him back to Laguna, but maybe she tried to tell him about Matron? Who knows...very good question!
Hm. That's pretty cool that you feel they can win in solo matches. I must admit that I wouldn't mind seeing that match up "Dead Fantasy" style. Have you seen that before? Its really good! Oh and I agree with you 100% about Seifer being better then Squall. In the first match against Seifer he was really rusty. Oh check this out...if you play/watch a vid of the boss battle against Seifer in disc one you'll notice that when he attacks he simply lunges forward and swipes.

But when you fight him in disc 2/3 he lunges forward, spins, then swipes. Just a random feat I picked up on. lol Anyway, Seifer's heart clearly wasn't in those fights. So I understand when you say he wasn't really at his best at the time. Not to mention Squall almost always had a squad with him to fight. Its a shame Seifer didn't fight along side Fujin/Raijin at least once.

You know I actually like the idea of Ellone communicating with Seifer throughout the game. To me, she and Squall never really "hated" Seifer, even at the very end. So the idea is possible. Its a shame that Seifer was to brainwash to pay it much attention and link the pieces together.
My understanding of that point in the game was that Seifer had a flashback too, maybe not exactly the same thing, but he definitely knew and it seemed to me he just remembered. Being that Galbadia was lying in wait close to the Lighthouse Orphanage, I'm assuming either that triggered the memory, or maybe even Edea/Ultimecia to get that little extra bit of obedience out of him.

Squall and Seifer against Cloud? That's tricky for me. I'm a Squall girl, through and through, I'd take him over Cloud any day, but I'm almost thinking Cloud would win. I don't even know why. I'm thinking 'cause he's fought Sephiroth a couple times and usually comes out on top and one could argue that Sephiroth is more challenging than Ultimecia (I know I found that to be true in the games...) Then where brute strength is concerned, Cloud definitely has the advantage.
Squall and Seifer are trained as mercenaries and have that fighting background, but Cloud too was part of Shin-Ra's military (maybe not SOLDIER but he still had some battle training).
I think perhaps through sheer skill Squall and Seifer could beat Cloud though. For whatever reason, I feel they would have the ability to drop whatever issues they have with one another and work together to beat a common foe. They both have great skill with the gunblade, and that too would give them an advantage over Cloud...

I think all that to say I'm rather undecided.

Limit Break theory! ^^; I think (but could be wrong) that Squall's Renzokuken LionHeart does roughly the same amount of damage as Cloud's Omnislash. Add on to that Seifer's Fire Cross Blood Fest... the boys would win.

So yeah, okay. Seifer and Squall would beat Cloud. ^^
I believe that it was disk 3 when they officially visited the orphanage, but Irvine talked about it during the 2nd disk and the rest started to vaguely remember.

Then how Seifer knew about Matrion and associated it with Edea. Imagine this: if you were possessed, and was forced to use and somewhat abuse someone who you consider as 'your child' wouldn't you (as the one possessed) do everything possible to help out the child? I guess making sure that Seifer know about her true self was the only way she could help, but then the one who took over Edea (Ultimceia) twisted and warped it to mean something else. I know that its a vague 'wishy-washy' hypothesis, but there is really not much proof to go on with this.

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Then the 2 vs. 1 match: I still think it would be Cloud in which he survived the Jenova Project made his skills rival or even surpass Sephiroth that allowed a clear and decisive victor instead of a draw.

But thinking about him being put up against Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz - you gotta remember that at the time Cloud was still infected and suffering the ill effects of Geostigma.

Then the character dynamic between Seifer and Squall. You nailed it right on the head. But, let's put that aside for a moment.

Both have been trained in Junctioned Magic and Guardian Forces - They (I feel) are rather limited and not only do you have to level up the character, you have to level up your GF too.

Limit Breaks: If Squall or Seifer has one ready (which only happens when they are low in health) and then they are healed to their max level, they no longer have it available (otherwise they would be easy targets for defeat) - but for Cloud, it's stoic in which any hit builds up to it and it's only wiped clean if he (or anyone in the FF7 world) are KO'd.

So putting the character dynamics aside and comparing with just the battle system alone, I would say Cloud.

Putting the in story mode which includes character dynamic, their individual history and actions - I would still say Cloud.

... but that's just me =^_^=

Edited at 2009-03-21 05:46 pm (UTC)
Rufus - AC

September 2009

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